Posts by Separation of Powers

15

Why leave one religion only to join another one??

by Monsieur in

i read how many here have learned ttat, leave the jw faith, but then subscribe to the 'true' gospel of jesus.. it seems rather contradictory.

the jw faith teaches a very positive 'concept' of christ and his teachings, how is this different from the way other religions teach it?.

it seems more logical to discard or ignore any claims of historic or authentic proof of christ's existence.

Separation of Powers

Some need religion. They need the sense of belonging that only organized religion can provide. Others, others lose all faith in religion after leaving the organization. They feel like JF Rutherford felt, "Religion is a snare and a racket." When you get to that point, all religion becomes a joke. It is a means to an end, and typically that end is money.

I have seen more leave the organization and becomes agnostic or atheist than return to an organized sect. Can't say that I blame them, faith is a precarious thing and when it is damaged or abused, does not mend well.

153

The antidote to the myth that JWs are declining

by slimboyfat in

one of the most persistent myths on this website is that jws are already in decline, the rot has set in, and the descent of the watchtower is inevitable from here on in.

unfortunately the facts do not bear this out.

jws are still increasing even in most developing countries, and they are still growing worldwide at a faster rate than the general population.

Separation of Powers

I agree Slimboyfat, particularly with the idea of projecting one's feelings onto the situation. The reality is, the organization continues to grow. Many commenters here have pointed out the reasons, so I will shy away from that. With regard to the lying and deception about numbers, well, I don't see that, and never have.

To my point, I recall the mass exodus after the 1975 debacle. The Society didn't fudge those numbers as noted in the Yearbook, I believe 1977 onward for a couple of years. It was there in black and white, close to 250K left as I recall. It prompted no real explanation to the rank and file. No real apology. Just an in your face "so they left" mentality. I remember Sydlick saying, "They were not of our sort." Funny, I didn't feel that way at the time.

Today, people come in, not in droves, but in trickles. Like a bucket placed under a leaky roof, drop by drop. The bucket still fills, not as fast, but still. And when a piece of moss breaks from the cedar shingle and drifts down the roof, the hole might plug, so the bucket is moved to an area where the trickle is stable.

Sometimes the pail overflows and water trickles out of the bucket and through the cracks of the floorboard. The bucket doesn't really care about the loss...it's just a bucket. But, I, I am just a drop of water pooling below the floorboard with other drips. LOL

287

What about your vow to Jehovah?

by a watcher in

did you get baptized without being dedicated?.

why did you allow men to come between you and jehovah?.

why were you serving jehovah at all?

Separation of Powers

As an adult, I have never agreed that young people should be baptized as they do not...can not...fully understand the ramifications of their decision as defined by the organization. Although I have lived a life of dedication, I cannot say that I fully, knowlingly, and consciously dedicated myself until many years later, probably in my adult years. As with many of you, I was simply fulfilling the role as my parents saw fit for me. It made them happy, and I garnished a measure of praise that was otherwise nonexistent in the life of a young person craving acceptance.

As for men coming between, well, that is the reason I am where I am. The apostle Paul stated in 2 Corinthians 1:24, "But that does not mean we want to dominate you by telling you how to put your faith into practice. We want to work together so you will be full of joy, for it is by your own faith that you stand firm." (New Living Translation) When I read those words, I came to the realization that my faith was being dominated. I think a better expression would be commandeered. It's like my faith was growing and I was getting closer to my Creator when all of a sudden an external force grabbed hold of the wheel of my life and said, "We are commandeering this vehicle! You need to go this way and steer that way. You are using the wrong fuel and your floor mats are dirty! You didn't change the oil at 3000 miles again?" I feel that I have been excused from a relationship with God and for that...there is no excuse.

As for serving, I have come to realize that people need help now more than ever. They don't want answers, at least not until they have the help to determine how to start moving forward. They need compassion. They need demonstrable concern. Not because someone needs to write it down on a piece of paper to impress the powers that be, like some bureaucrat, but because they truly care. That, I believe, is what the God I worship expects from those dedicated to him.

57

The Elders want to meet with me ... (Judicial Meeting)

by Oubliette in

the elders want to meet with me.

at least that's what they keep telling me, and they've been saying it for more than a month and a half now.

just so you're clear: this is a judicial committee.

Separation of Powers

If your ultimate objective is to simply walk away after the meeting then it shouldn't matter that you have to wait a while. The reality is that with any reinstatement committee there are always those in the group that think "not enough time has passed," or "I don't think he has really learned from this, afterall his magazine wasn't even studied the other day," or my personal favorite, "I don't think the congregation is ready for him to return."

In any event, realize that the process needs to be followed. The longer you wait, the more patient you are, the more you show you really want it. I recalll several who disappeared right after reinstatement. Just shows, sometimes the decision is more man than God.

13

Is this another scare tactic for the weak-minded Jehovah's Witness recruits and experienced members?

by I_love_Jeff in

jw
friends

where in the bible does it state that adam and eve are unrepentant sinners and therefore deemed forever in the grave with no chance of resurrection, of course?

is this another scare tactic for the weak-minded recruits?

i believe their theory is based on mere speculation and simply used to convince the new recruits as well as the experienced members to refrain from questioning/going against their superiors otherwise jehovah will deem you an unrepentant sinner.

Separation of Powers

The Bible does not state that they were eternally destroyed due to being unrepentent sinners. The organization, to my knowledge has never said that "without a doubt" Adam and Eve were eternally destroyed. No, they have simply stated that Adam and Eve were "evidently," "doubtlessly," incontestably," incontrovertibly," "indisputably," "it would seem," and "obviously," "eternally destroyed as unrepentent sinners!"

67

Tech49 on HOURS, TIME, and REPORTS

by Tech49 in

i thought i would share some of my observations on counting field service time, reports, etc.

and how those reports are viewed, to those that are still so fixated on numbers.. i served as secretary on the service committee for many years, and have seen it all!.

i was really disheartened when wt changed the requirement for aux pioneering to allow for 30 hrs, instead of the 50 it has been for so long.

Separation of Powers

Tech49,

I agree wholeheartedly. The interchange with the CO sounds quite familiar. I have had several.

One must realize that the CO's are also judged by the higher-ups with regard to the activity of the circuit. When an active (statistics) circuit begins to falter, it must be because the CO just isn't encouraging enough. And when the activity (statistics) go up, well, it looks like the CO is doing his job. The act of reporting, since its inception, has always been about control. I have always recognized this, but it became blatantly apparent at the district convention when the "first century" christian was expressing how happy he was by the activity of the congregation while looking at a scroll, apparently depicting that he was getting their time. Interesting scenario, particularly because the majority of the first century church was illiterate and could not write and the use of papyrus (the scroll) had been effectively replaced by parchment...oh so many errors!

At least they don't have the old chalkboard at the front of the hall so that the Congregation Servant can praise the high hour publishers and then disparage the dregs.

Perception is more important than substance.

42

Can you help me encourage Reopened mind.

by TotallyADD in

jw
friends

as most of you know we got a very angry letter from our oldest son.

it hurt her very much.

i feel so bad for her because he attacked her for what i feel was very unfair.

Separation of Powers

Regardless of whether we were raised in the org or not, being part of a family is a dynamic replete with problems, some real, some perceived. I concur with Blondie in that we can only be the best that "we" can be. Where we have made changes and come to the realization that we were not the best parent, son or daughter, husband or wife, or even friend that we could have been, we need to own up to that and make the committment to strive to be better. That, unfortunately, is all you can do. Water under the bridge has either evaporated or is dammed up somewhere, either way, it has been moved along by time. Some of us can put aside the wrongs, others bathe themselves in them. Some find their present course toxic and make changes, others seem to only function in that caustic environment.

Be the best you that you can be. When we take ownership of the mistakes that we have made as parents, sons or daughters, husbands or wives, or even friends, we can move on and attempt to make things better. We cannot, however, control the reactions of those against whom the mistakes were made. We leave that ball in their court, but in doing so, they know that we are ready to lovingly volley in the future.

Kind regards,

SOP

10

OKAY... July 2013 Witchtower. The end ain't coming fo at least 30 years...

by hamsterbait in

jw
friends

the noolite in the july study rag, is that all the annointed will be in heaven when armageddy starts.. they already proved from the scriptures that there is not going to be a rapture of annointed.

(as a study pointed out they would "never" go back to a teaching they had disproved with the babble).

since mark sanderson is about 48, is in beth hell and receives the very best of health care, we can count on him living until at least 70 - 80. unless he dies of cancer or obesity or an accident.

Separation of Powers

Interesting supposition Hamsterbait. I would like your opinion of the following:

One of the principal elements of the July 2013 Watchtower that few have mentioned is the timeline illustration of "The Wheat and The Weeds"

In that illustration, there is a portion titled "Shining Brightly." Notice what the caption states, "Shortly before Armageddon, the remaining faithful annointed are gathered to the heavens." (italics mine)

Now, I don't know about you, but that sounds strikingly similar to the expression found in 1 Thessalonias 4:17; "Afterward, we the living who are surviving together with them, be caught away in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord." (NWT)

Most versions are translated the same except for the Douay-Rheims Bible which says, "Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds..."

Looks like the door has been opened for the rapture to begin someday soon!

48

With the July 15 WT approaching, would this be the ideal opportunity to start an ACTIVELY VOCAL fade?

by Captain Blithering in

jw
friends

by 'actively vocal', i do not mean openly criticising the articles and pointing out the inconsistencies or flipflops (not footwear, reversals).

i do mean letting people know that you're finding it hard to understand the new truth, and the fact that there is therefore old truth, or falsities, (is that a word?

it is now), therefore if there are falsehoods (that's the word, of course), then that puts into doubt the extent of jah's involvement in the preparation/dissemination of it all... (and making it clear you're not saying they aren't gods prophets on earth, just that you're not sure, don't know).. the reason i ask is cos i'm finding it hard to completely fade without an external reason.

Separation of Powers

Possible reply,

"For me, it's not a matter of faith. I have faith. Faith in Jehovah. Faith in his Word. You know, faith. Right now, though, I am having a crisis of confidence. I am trying to put these new ideas into perspective. It is difficult to be told all your life, and believe, that Jehovah has done nothing without his representative organization of earth. But now, I am trying to understand how for almost 2000 years there was no organization that represented his interests. I mean, if that is the case, then how did we get the Bible. I mean, the Bible canon wasn't defined until almost 200 years after the death of the last apostle. Who was responsible for that if the weeds had overgrown the wheat....I have tried to get my head around this....I have been praying and know that I need to wait on Jehovah....Thank you for coming by."

70

WT August 15, 2013 QFR - Sitting next to a disfellowshipped child at meetings

by Designer Stubble in

page 8 of the latest wt (insider version) has a whole page dedicated to the question whether it is appropriate to sit next to a disfellowshipped child at meetings.. not sure how to paste this in, but check jw.org.

perhaps someone can do this for me.. horrible, no words really on how pharisee like their cult grip and control has become!.

first of all, without any shame they are talking about disfellowshipped minors.

Separation of Powers

OVERZEALOUS=OVERBLOWN

I believe this to be an actual QFR as this is becoming a widespread situation. There are always the hardcore that sit at the hall and "police" the congregation. It doesn't have to be some old bro or sis, typically it is the up-and-comer that wants to make a name for himself. After all, if you are a 30 something and show yourself to be more "company oriented," you can really move up quickly. Where once "holier-than-thou" was considered unbalanced and immature, now it is desired.